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| Numb website - order the documentary here
I watched this last night, that was a big mistake, my sleep pattern has been a bit shot lately and watching this before bed didn't help!
It was absolutely spot on and I related to ALL of it. I've written about what it feels like to stop taking your antidepressant and what happens Akathisia as have many others, but Phil has gone a step further and actually filmed what happened when he halved his antidepressant. There's no way I wanted anyone to see me in that state and I actively hid myself and "it" when the withdrawals kicked in. Big kudos to Phil for doing this.
The excerpt with his very supportive wife was exactly how Peter was with me, especially where she said she didn't want Phil reading the worst case scenarios on the internet, it was obvious to me Phil was reading the Paxil Progress web site, exactly as I had when desperately searching for the answers. The impact on marriage and family life was an exact mirror image of ours when I was trying to stop taking my antidepressant. Peter on the outside trying to understand what was going on but feeling pretty helpless. Phil tried everything I tried, diet, exercise, alternative remedies, all to no avail. In the end he did what I had to done so many times, he restarted the antidepressant, after much angst and wrestling with whether to persevere with his withdrawals or give in and go back to the drug. I was interested to see he switched to Prozac, just as I did, and I wonder if it was with a view to attempting to taper off liquid Prozac in the future.
Something else jumped out at me, one commentator in the documentary talked about whether these drugs are "addictive" or not, and this is a question that I have wrestled with. The commentator (I can't remember who it was, perhaps someone will remind me) made the point that the drug companies tell you they are not addictive because you don't see people selling them on street corners and people craving them, but that's because it's so easy to get your prescription filled from the doctor. I have sat in the surgery and heard someone begging for a doctors appointment because they hadn't realised they'd run out of their seroxat and if they didn't get it they would be in a terrible state the next day.
If anyone around me wants to borrow it and watch please feel free to ask me, but I won't post it to anyone because I don't want to risk losing it!
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Sunday, 26 February 2012
Numb Documentary - Watched at Last
Tuesday, 14 February 2012
1.20ml - New Reduction
It's been two months since I last reduced, I think I'm deliberately taking it slower over the winter.
I've said it before and I'll say it again but I'm at a stage where it would be so easy to just stop taking the Prozac, I'm on such a stupidly low dose, but on the other hand I'm scared of all my hard work and patience unravelling at the end. So I'm keeping in mind what I read that I shouldn't ever reduce more than 10% of the last dose I was on, and when you think about the maths, the lower I go, the steeper the % drops.
So I'm really not sure how this will work when I hit 1ml, I think I may have to consider when my jumping off point will be.
NEVER underestimate how this class of drug can screw you up. I'll carry on being the tortoise and not the hare for the time being.
My tortoise Prozac reduction timeline!
I've said it before and I'll say it again but I'm at a stage where it would be so easy to just stop taking the Prozac, I'm on such a stupidly low dose, but on the other hand I'm scared of all my hard work and patience unravelling at the end. So I'm keeping in mind what I read that I shouldn't ever reduce more than 10% of the last dose I was on, and when you think about the maths, the lower I go, the steeper the % drops.So I'm really not sure how this will work when I hit 1ml, I think I may have to consider when my jumping off point will be.
NEVER underestimate how this class of drug can screw you up. I'll carry on being the tortoise and not the hare for the time being.
My tortoise Prozac reduction timeline!
Monday, 13 February 2012
Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal: Why Taper by 10% of your Dosage?
I found this today and thought it was an excellent article, I have also put it as a page on the side for reference. It's more or less the method I've been following. Just been wondering where my "jump off" point will be....
By AltoStrata
AltoStrata's Surviving Antidepressants Web Site
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
Many people seem to be able to taper off psychiatric medications in a couple of weeks or even cold-turkey with minor withdrawal symptoms perhaps for a month or so. Doctors therefore expect everyone can do this. However, it seems a minority suffer severe symptoms for much longer.
It is unknown how large or small this minority is. You may very well be in it. You cannot know how your nervous system will respond to a decrease in medication until you try it.
Withdrawal symptoms represent neurological dysfunction. Severe symptoms can be distressing, debilitating, or even disabling. If you get prolonged withdrawal syndrome, there is no known treatment or cure. You will have to cope with it until it goes away.
Some guides will suggest a trial decrease of 25% to start. If you get withdrawal symptoms, it is recommended to reinstate the original full dosage and taper more slowly from there.
That is reasonable, except that it can take weeks to feel the full brunt of withdrawal symptoms from an initial drop. If you have already made two reductions from your original dosage, you will have reduced by about 50% — and your symptoms may indicate substantial neurological damage.
(NEVER ALTERNATE DOSAGES TO TAPER. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE, THIS IS SURE TO SET OFF WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS.)
If you are a person who is sensitive to fluctuations in your dosage, you may be suffering quite a bit, and for these people, even if the original dosage is reinstated at this point, withdrawal symptoms may continue to be severe.
To save wear and tear on your nervous system, we recommend an initial drop of 10% and staying at that level for a month to see if withdrawal symptoms develop. If they do, you may wish to reinstate and make smaller decreases at intervals of about a month. If you are sensitive, this can protect you from a great deal of pain and discomfort.
If are not sensitive to a 10% drop, by listening to your body, you may be able to make 10% drops more often than every month.
In this way, the 10% method protects everyone and you have the option of tapering faster if you can tolerate it.
From the Icarus Project Mind UK Document
If you find you have to withdraw very slowly, it can be difficult to make small enough reductions in your dose, especially if your drug comes in capsule form. Sometimes it’s possible to break open the capsule and remove some of the content to lower the dose. You should always take care doing this, though, as the contents (for instance, fluoxetine) are sometimes irritating to the skin or the eyes. A pharmacist should be able to tell you if it’s safe to do so.
Some drugs are obtainable in liquid form, which can be diluted to make small reductions in dosage. It may be worth asking whether you can change to one of these. You would then need to be very sure what the concentration of the liquid is, and how much water to add to achieve the dose you wish. You may want to ask a pharmacist to help you with this….
Allow enough time for your body to readjust to the lower dosage at each stage. You could start by reducing the dose by 10 percent, and see how you feel. If you get withdrawal effects, wait for these to settle before you try the next reduction. Then reduce it by another 10 percent of the original dose. As the dose gets smaller, you may find this rate more difficult to cope with, and reducing by 10 percent of the reduced dose may be a better idea. If you started with 400mg of your drug, for example, you could first reduce the dose by 10 percent (40mg), to 360mg. The next 40mg reduction would take you down to 320mg, then 280mg, 240mg, and so on. If you got to 200mg and then found that a further drop of 40mg drop was too difficult, you could reduce by 10 percent of 200mg (20mg), and go down to 180mg, and so on. At each stage, if you find the reduction too difficult to cope with, you can increase the dose slightly (not necessarily back to the previous dose) and stabilise on that before you continue.
Also see Dr.Peter Breggin's 10% taper method
Please note that the 10% reduction method we recommend is a 10% reduction on the already reduced dose.
- If you started at 10mg, the first reduction would be 10% of 10mg, or 1mg, for a reduced dose of 9mg.
- Your second reduction would be 10% of 9mg, or .9mg, for a reduced dose of 8.1mg.
- Your third reduction would be 10% of 8.1mg, or .81mg, for a reduced dose of 7.29mg.
And so on.
This ensures that your nervous system is eased down a gentle 10% slope at every step of the process. It’s important that drops become smaller, not larger, as you go. Once you find the rate at which you can comfortably taper, you don’t want to jolt your nervous system with a larger drop than it can handle.
Mathematics whizzes may recognize that the 10% reduction formula is a geometric progression approaching but never equaling zero. At a very small dosage, likely less than 1mg, when reductions no longer cause any withdrawal symptoms, you will want to simply stop.
You will need to use your own judgment about your jumping-off point. Some people have found that the final steps require reductions so tiny they cannot measure them, employing methods such as dipping a toothpick in a liquid solution to ease off in the final stages.
By AltoStrata
AltoStrata's Surviving Antidepressants Web Site
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
We believe that, for a minority, the risk of severe withdrawal is so great, a very conservative approach to tapering to protect everyone is called for.
Many people seem to be able to taper off psychiatric medications in a couple of weeks or even cold-turkey with minor withdrawal symptoms perhaps for a month or so. Doctors therefore expect everyone can do this. However, it seems a minority suffer severe symptoms for much longer.It is unknown how large or small this minority is. You may very well be in it. You cannot know how your nervous system will respond to a decrease in medication until you try it.
Withdrawal symptoms represent neurological dysfunction. Severe symptoms can be distressing, debilitating, or even disabling. If you get prolonged withdrawal syndrome, there is no known treatment or cure. You will have to cope with it until it goes away.
Some guides will suggest a trial decrease of 25% to start. If you get withdrawal symptoms, it is recommended to reinstate the original full dosage and taper more slowly from there.
That is reasonable, except that it can take weeks to feel the full brunt of withdrawal symptoms from an initial drop. If you have already made two reductions from your original dosage, you will have reduced by about 50% — and your symptoms may indicate substantial neurological damage.
(NEVER ALTERNATE DOSAGES TO TAPER. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE, THIS IS SURE TO SET OFF WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS.)
If you are a person who is sensitive to fluctuations in your dosage, you may be suffering quite a bit, and for these people, even if the original dosage is reinstated at this point, withdrawal symptoms may continue to be severe.
To save wear and tear on your nervous system, we recommend an initial drop of 10% and staying at that level for a month to see if withdrawal symptoms develop. If they do, you may wish to reinstate and make smaller decreases at intervals of about a month. If you are sensitive, this can protect you from a great deal of pain and discomfort.
If are not sensitive to a 10% drop, by listening to your body, you may be able to make 10% drops more often than every month.
In this way, the 10% method protects everyone and you have the option of tapering faster if you can tolerate it.
From the Icarus Project Mind UK Document
If you find you have to withdraw very slowly, it can be difficult to make small enough reductions in your dose, especially if your drug comes in capsule form. Sometimes it’s possible to break open the capsule and remove some of the content to lower the dose. You should always take care doing this, though, as the contents (for instance, fluoxetine) are sometimes irritating to the skin or the eyes. A pharmacist should be able to tell you if it’s safe to do so.
Some drugs are obtainable in liquid form, which can be diluted to make small reductions in dosage. It may be worth asking whether you can change to one of these. You would then need to be very sure what the concentration of the liquid is, and how much water to add to achieve the dose you wish. You may want to ask a pharmacist to help you with this….
Allow enough time for your body to readjust to the lower dosage at each stage. You could start by reducing the dose by 10 percent, and see how you feel. If you get withdrawal effects, wait for these to settle before you try the next reduction. Then reduce it by another 10 percent of the original dose. As the dose gets smaller, you may find this rate more difficult to cope with, and reducing by 10 percent of the reduced dose may be a better idea. If you started with 400mg of your drug, for example, you could first reduce the dose by 10 percent (40mg), to 360mg. The next 40mg reduction would take you down to 320mg, then 280mg, 240mg, and so on. If you got to 200mg and then found that a further drop of 40mg drop was too difficult, you could reduce by 10 percent of 200mg (20mg), and go down to 180mg, and so on. At each stage, if you find the reduction too difficult to cope with, you can increase the dose slightly (not necessarily back to the previous dose) and stabilise on that before you continue.
Also see Dr.Peter Breggin's 10% taper method
Please note that the 10% reduction method we recommend is a 10% reduction on the already reduced dose.
- If you started at 10mg, the first reduction would be 10% of 10mg, or 1mg, for a reduced dose of 9mg.
- Your second reduction would be 10% of 9mg, or .9mg, for a reduced dose of 8.1mg.
- Your third reduction would be 10% of 8.1mg, or .81mg, for a reduced dose of 7.29mg.
And so on.
This ensures that your nervous system is eased down a gentle 10% slope at every step of the process. It’s important that drops become smaller, not larger, as you go. Once you find the rate at which you can comfortably taper, you don’t want to jolt your nervous system with a larger drop than it can handle.
Mathematics whizzes may recognize that the 10% reduction formula is a geometric progression approaching but never equaling zero. At a very small dosage, likely less than 1mg, when reductions no longer cause any withdrawal symptoms, you will want to simply stop.
You will need to use your own judgment about your jumping-off point. Some people have found that the final steps require reductions so tiny they cannot measure them, employing methods such as dipping a toothpick in a liquid solution to ease off in the final stages.
Thursday, 9 February 2012
A Prozac Withdrawal Story - This is Short..
..but I bet the long term withdrawal isn't. This is less than a minute but puts it in a nutshell, I had forgotten about this video until a friend shared it with me.
And after I posted this the other day, a friend shared with a video he had made about his own experience after cold turkey from 40mg Prozac (which is double the dose I was on) and sadly he is still reaping the whirlwind and now coming off Prozac a lot slower.
Prozac Reduction Timeline
Thursday, 2 February 2012
Akathisia - a Side Effect of SSRI's, Withdrawing Too Fast off SSRI's, or Cold Turkeying off SSRI's
Summer 1994
Coming back from a gathering of mums and babies, post natal NCT support group, in reality the group wasn’t very supportive, there was rather a lot of competitive mumdom going on, other babies seemed to be sleeping through contentedly, learning the alphabet, names put down for private school already, ok I’m exaggerating a bit.
The mum I was getting a lift home with, our two babies in their seats in the back, I had more of an affinity with, our babies were not so easy and we didn’t pretend otherwise, and neither of us was finding new motherhood a breeze, and we both had money worries. In hindsight I know I was depressed and living with my emotions very raw and close to the surface but for me this was a very closely guarded secret but I think the other Mum sensed it. She was more open about her feelings, at least to me anyway, on that drive home she suddenly let rip, it all came tumbling out, how depressed she felt, her resentment towards the other Mums in the group, the medication she was on, how life was a constant uphill battle managing the baby, her dog, her husband, anxiety about going back to work and the sleepless nights, and the medication she was on. She told me that she often had thoughts when she was driving of just ramming her car into a lorry or car in front deliberately to escape her life.
December 2003 and Feb 2007
5am and for about the 3rd night in a row I’ve barely slept a wink, I can’t stop the adrenaline pumping round my body, my stomach is tightly knotted, I’ve barely been able to eat properly it makes me feel sick. I’m clammy, sweating and crying and P is trying to reassure me, but he has to go to work. I get up and drag myself through all the motions of the day and making sure boys get to school, I feel like the living dead, I make sure they get fed and make sure they and no one else is aware of what’s going on, I don’t hang around at the school gates. Oh I do kind of tell a few people I’m not really feeling right but I play it down. The constant adrenaline is tormenting me on the inside and I can’t stop it. It’s been building up over a period of months and I’ve been fighting and fighting the feelings but it seems to have reached a peak of exquisite torture. It’s like being at the top of a roller coaster that never stops. Someone else mentioned birdsong, and it was a funny thing, the torture was worse in the mornings and over the summer months while it was slowly building, birdsong in the morning outside the window had become a kind of torture as well. I had to go to work only 2 days a week and God only knows how I managed it. I had taken my last Lustral tablet months ago, and come off it as per the doctors instructions, and now my depression/anxiety was back tenfold to punish me for daring to presume I could stop taking it. I must be wired up totally wrong, no one else feels like this do they? What is wrong with me? Maybe I really am insane, maybe I just can’t cope with life without my tablets, how come everyone else can cope with life, and I can’t? There must be something fundamentally wrong with me. By now the Orwell Bridge was beginning to look a bit attractive and I just wanted to escape the adrenaline surges torturing me, my nerves were in shreds.
Broken, exhausted and shaken I reluctantly started taking the Lustral again and gradually started to feel more “normal”. Obviously there was something wrong with me and I needed Lustral to help me function. How come though I hadn’t needed Lustral to function before 1998?
Nowadays my withdrawals are almost but not quite non existent, the tsunami that is akathisia has long since washed away leaving me just a bit more nervy and more vulnerable to stress, much calmer but aware that adrenaline is always not far from the surface, and still trying to hide it and not always succeeding.
I’ve just finished reading Ann Blake Tracey’s book “Prozac Panacea or Pandora?”, I’ve heard the word akathisia in relation to antidepressants in recent years but I had never been quite sure what it was or that it applied to me. This book included loads and loads of anecdotes from people and information about akathisia and I actually felt emotional reading it, there was a name for it and I never knew at the time and I’m absolutely certain my doctor didn’t know either.
Prozac Reduction Timeline
Coming back from a gathering of mums and babies, post natal NCT support group, in reality the group wasn’t very supportive, there was rather a lot of competitive mumdom going on, other babies seemed to be sleeping through contentedly, learning the alphabet, names put down for private school already, ok I’m exaggerating a bit.
The mum I was getting a lift home with, our two babies in their seats in the back, I had more of an affinity with, our babies were not so easy and we didn’t pretend otherwise, and neither of us was finding new motherhood a breeze, and we both had money worries. In hindsight I know I was depressed and living with my emotions very raw and close to the surface but for me this was a very closely guarded secret but I think the other Mum sensed it. She was more open about her feelings, at least to me anyway, on that drive home she suddenly let rip, it all came tumbling out, how depressed she felt, her resentment towards the other Mums in the group, the medication she was on, how life was a constant uphill battle managing the baby, her dog, her husband, anxiety about going back to work and the sleepless nights, and the medication she was on. She told me that she often had thoughts when she was driving of just ramming her car into a lorry or car in front deliberately to escape her life.
December 2003 and Feb 2007
5am and for about the 3rd night in a row I’ve barely slept a wink, I can’t stop the adrenaline pumping round my body, my stomach is tightly knotted, I’ve barely been able to eat properly it makes me feel sick. I’m clammy, sweating and crying and P is trying to reassure me, but he has to go to work. I get up and drag myself through all the motions of the day and making sure boys get to school, I feel like the living dead, I make sure they get fed and make sure they and no one else is aware of what’s going on, I don’t hang around at the school gates. Oh I do kind of tell a few people I’m not really feeling right but I play it down. The constant adrenaline is tormenting me on the inside and I can’t stop it. It’s been building up over a period of months and I’ve been fighting and fighting the feelings but it seems to have reached a peak of exquisite torture. It’s like being at the top of a roller coaster that never stops. Someone else mentioned birdsong, and it was a funny thing, the torture was worse in the mornings and over the summer months while it was slowly building, birdsong in the morning outside the window had become a kind of torture as well. I had to go to work only 2 days a week and God only knows how I managed it. I had taken my last Lustral tablet months ago, and come off it as per the doctors instructions, and now my depression/anxiety was back tenfold to punish me for daring to presume I could stop taking it. I must be wired up totally wrong, no one else feels like this do they? What is wrong with me? Maybe I really am insane, maybe I just can’t cope with life without my tablets, how come everyone else can cope with life, and I can’t? There must be something fundamentally wrong with me. By now the Orwell Bridge was beginning to look a bit attractive and I just wanted to escape the adrenaline surges torturing me, my nerves were in shreds.
Broken, exhausted and shaken I reluctantly started taking the Lustral again and gradually started to feel more “normal”. Obviously there was something wrong with me and I needed Lustral to help me function. How come though I hadn’t needed Lustral to function before 1998?
Nowadays my withdrawals are almost but not quite non existent, the tsunami that is akathisia has long since washed away leaving me just a bit more nervy and more vulnerable to stress, much calmer but aware that adrenaline is always not far from the surface, and still trying to hide it and not always succeeding.
I’ve just finished reading Ann Blake Tracey’s book “Prozac Panacea or Pandora?”, I’ve heard the word akathisia in relation to antidepressants in recent years but I had never been quite sure what it was or that it applied to me. This book included loads and loads of anecdotes from people and information about akathisia and I actually felt emotional reading it, there was a name for it and I never knew at the time and I’m absolutely certain my doctor didn’t know either.
Prozac Reduction Timeline
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